The Katt Is Out The Bag- It's the Year of Reveal

The Katt Is Out The Bag- It's the Year of Reveal

,: 2024

SUMMARY KEYWORDS

people, birth, pandemic, client, doulas, doula, baby, induction, doctor, black, hospital, nurses, vaginal birth, truth, feel, call, black women, put, talking, labor

SPEAKERS

Denise Bolds, Ravae Sinclair

Ravae Sinclair: 00:00

Hey everybody, it's Ravae! did you say something? You mute it will start. Okay, I can hear you now. Okay, so we'll just reset. Hi, everybody. I'm Ravae Sinclair.

Denise Bolds: 00:23

Hi, I'm Denise Bolds.

Ravae Sinclair: 00:25

And we're here to Doula That!. Welcome. Welcome to our space. We are going to tackle just some random stuff. We took a little bit of a break in January, we needed to get into the new year and find our footing. And in January was crazy, right? We every day, we were like, I'm doing this I'm getting this done. I'm getting this done. And all of a sudden, we looked up and it was February 1st, so we're here. Yeah, we made it. We made it here

Denise Bolds: 00:57

We made it we made it.

Ravae Sinclair: 00:58

Yeah. And and by the way, yeah, I'm gonna be I'm multitasking because I'm doing my nails. It's like, This is what life is today. So we're I'm doing the most if I'm looking down, it's because I'm making sure my hands are on point. But we were women, we could do more than one thing.

Denise Bolds: 01:15

We can do it. Here's the safe space for Ravae to have pretty nails. Nothing wrong with that.

Ravae Sinclair: 01:21

Okay, like the truth is, this is like our girlfriend chat. So this is what I was working on. This is what I would be doing. So I mean,

Denise Bolds: 01:30

this is true. All

Ravae Sinclair: 01:31

right. So listen, we just kind of took a hiatus when everything in the world was happening. Like I was like, Oh, I wish we were recording. Because Katt Williams came out January 3 I think it was January 3rd. Katt Williams by the way, for those who don't know is comedian and came on the Shannon Sharp. Wait, wait no, Club Shay Shay-

Denise Bolds: 01:57

Club Shay Shay-

Ravae Sinclair: 01:57

Club Shay Shay on youtube. So go watch it y'all. It is two hours and 45-- Is it two hours

Denise Bolds: 02:03

Oh, it's it's it's close to three hours of amazing dialogue. Amazing.

Ravae Sinclair: 02:08

Yes, two hours and 45 minutes of amazing "doing it for the culture" telling it like it is setting the record straight. And almost nothing has been refuted since while he has. So go go get you a taste. It was pretty amazing. But the whole point that I'm making is that Katt Williams really set the tone for what 2024 has turned out to be so consistently--- is a revelation of revealing.

Denise Bolds: 02:36

Yeah,

Ravae Sinclair: 02:36

pulling back the veil. If you got secrets, they not they're gonna be revealed. So just get ready to own your stuff. Because 2024 People are getting told, on stuff is being laid out, people are not allowed to keep hurting people, fleecing people, stealing from people and getting away with it. So And guess what? Of course we get to see it in the birth world. It's unfolding.

Denise Bolds: 03:00

Oh, do we get to see it in the birth world. But this is the year of transparency. This is the year of the reckoning. This is the year of the truth shall be told. Okay. We are in the Age of Aquarius. This is no time to be playing around here. Okay, so we're gonna tell the truth. We're gonna say what we need to say. And that's the way it is. This is 2024. I'm read.

Ravae Sinclair: 03:20

I love it. I love it. Because you know, we roll with that energy. We're here. Yeah. Okay. Let's doula that. Okay, keep it in mind. I'm Katt Williams, following up with Katt Williams. Comedian Monique came on

Denise Bolds: 03:36

oh, gosh, her story was amazing. First of all that head of hair, that the way she speaks, you know, I'm with her. And you know, she's been through so much in her life. And Black people are still trying to drag her. It's like, Why can't this Black woman have her story? Why can't she be heard? So I listened. And I believe and I I'm in full supportive of what she's doing and how she's moving forward in her world. And the all the best to her all, but it happens in the birth community too. It most certainly does. Because when you're liked there's so much stuff that goes under the radar that no one says anything. But if you're not liked, then you are Oh, you're harassing you're confrontational. You're hard to get along with your combative and, you know, it's all because you're you dare to stand in the in the light of truth and transparency.

Ravae Sinclair: 04:33

Yeah, I think that that okay. So, you know, Monique, part of my assessment of this is, as a single Black woman rising in her career, she's fighting she's doing all the things and asking for equity on her tours when the men were getting different different kinds of treatment. And she left her son behind. Right, you know, there's there's a parenting dilemma of doing this work. I think there's not a lot of forgiveness for Black women. And that's a space that a lot of us experience right? We could do the same thing that somebody else does. And it can be construed misconstrued or heightened in a negative way, and it very much feels unfair, so I feel like the you know, the reviews on Monique are a little bit mixed, because so a few of the things she said were not accurate. So she talked about having a cease and desist issued. And so that's why the episode didn't come out, when in fact, her husband went back and corrected her. She misspoke, that really DL Hughley decided not to send the not to air the episode. So I think that some people have let that something a glitch like that. discredit her. And that's one of the other standards that I feel like Black women in business have to be so careful about is we can't be wrong on anything. We can't be mistaken. It's like you lied. I mean, we just watched-okay there because there's so many things--- we just watched Fani Willis- Willis have to get on the witnes sstand--

Denise Bolds: 05:54

OH! My God!

Ravae Sinclair: 05:56

Girl, we could talk forever, right? Because if Yeah, we could talk forever. But you see what I'm saying about you can't even be mistaken. So people say "see, she was wrong about that. So everything was inaccurate!" And it's like, No, everything is an inaccurate?

Denise Bolds: 06:09

No, it wasn't.

Ravae Sinclair: 06:10

But specifically, I would say that what what struck me and you and I have talked about this is the relationship or the lack thereof, or relationship between her and Oprah Winfrey, right. And I feel like there's a struggle in relationships with Black women in the same profession, that we often see one another as competition,

Denise Bolds: 06:35

definitely,

Ravae Sinclair: 06:35

we have to work, we really have to work at seeing one another's collaboration. And that's, that's by design. Our culture sets it up for us to fight for things-- for the little crumbs that we kind of get. And so you have to make a decision that you're going to be collaborative in, in any space in any industry. And I know you and I have experienced what, you know, what we see demonstrated in this relationship with Monique and Oprah, where we're trying to do the work, and I don't have any beef with you, but you're mistreating me (another Black woman) you're mistreating me because of some you heard, or what somebody said. And you know, I've been the subject of that many times. And I'm just watching those those things play out for people to realize, "Oh, you're not who they said. You are." "No, I never was. But those are your lessons to learn." But in the meantime, the work doesn't get done because you're not collaborating with me because you think I'm your competition.

Denise Bolds: 07:27

Exactly. It happens all the time in birth work being a Black DONA, doula. There are many doulas here in New York who will not speak to me. Meanwhile, I'm on the front lines with them. Yes, I have private pay clients, but I have to keep the lights on just like anybody else.

Ravae Sinclair: 07:41

Right!

Denise Bolds: 07:42

I should not be expected to be out here working for free, or working for close to nothing and struggling all of my life. You know that that weathering does is not healthy? So yeah, there are these schisms that we as Black people put up amongst ourselves, and it is not productive. It is not helpful. But if there's one thing that I cannot combat, I can't combat ignorance, I cannot come back combat a person who doesn't want to be in the know who wants to embrace the lie or or something that simply doesn't make sense. But I already heard it about you. So I'm just going to take that for what it is. You don't get a chance to get to know me you didn't reach out for a phone call. "Hey, Denise, can you clarify something for me?" "Hey, Ravae, I heard this, can you clarify this for me?" I'm happy to clarify for you, if it's going to keep you on the right track, but I'm not here to put out you know, fires of gossip and, and, and fodder and and unreality. I'm not here for that. So

Ravae Sinclair: 08:38

it does happen a lot of times and you know, have a situation where somebody said something, it wasn't true. I have my own group of people who could have, you know, corroborate my version of story. You know, lawyer means like, let me get the evidence child and I don't You don't have to take my word for it. Although Fani Willis did that tell us, hey, evidence, sufficient evidence is a testimony of one person. Yes. Okay. But you don't have to take my word for it. Let me bring somebody else in who witnessed every interaction that I have with that person. And it was just so interesting that the person was like, No, I don't want to hear it. They don't want to know the truth.

Denise Bolds: 09:11

They didn't want to embrace the truth because they had a prior belief in the one that they had a prior running that they did not handle well. And they took that bias into everything else.

Ravae Sinclair: 09:23

Yeah and it hurts and it hurts no one but the families were supposed to be serving it right. If we can't collaborate, I got something I can offer that person they have something that maybe could be an amazing collaboration

Denise Bolds: 09:34

of doulas of over 20 years of experience you guys are OGs to the heart. Absolutely.

Ravae Sinclair: 09:41

And you know, you know, I'm always I'm over here like, Well, what happened? Help me understand and I remain in a place where I'm like, Come to me you know, old school song come to me Don't ask my neighbor. Come to me honey, come to me because I'm really not interested. In having conflict and having that negative energy because it serves nobody, and it certainly doesn't get us further in business. But it was interesting to see, you know, in other professions, the combat the combative nature and the competition, really harm everybody, like everybody lost in that situation. And I feel like I'm wondering, how are we losing in these conflicts? What's being loss? What could be actually happening? How could we be putting together conferences or creating whole other organizations? If, you know, I sort of wonder if that's the setup, the setup is for us to not be strong together,

Denise Bolds: 10:45

Let me tell you, if we can eradicate black maternal health disparities, a lot of people are going to be out of a job, okay? If we eradicate that, just think about it. But Black maternal health disparities is a billion dollar business of NICU stays, c-section rates, in induction rates...

Ravae Sinclair: 11:05

Medicine, Big Pharma,

Denise Bolds: 11:06

medicine,mortality, you know, this is a huge business. And if we eradicate Back maternal health disparities, there will be a lot of people who are going to hit the pocketbooks. Yeah, absolutely.

Ravae Sinclair: 11:18

It's just like any other corrupt system in America. It's just like the criminal justice system. I tell you, your your son being arrested, makes the police officer money the pin, the union makes money. The deputy the judges, the jails, the food provider to telephone, the telecommunications companies make billions off of your son being plucked out of his life going, you know, and I'm not saying your son, Denise, but

Denise Bolds: 11:45

Oh, no, my son was arrested. But, I understand the example that you're using

Ravae Sinclair: 11:50

Black men, there are black bodies, it's another form of slavery it and it's just it just transformed. It's a different field, right. And a ton of people are making money and raising, you know, raising their kids going off to college paying for college paying their mortgages off of our backs. So it's another corrupt system. A lot of people get paid off of the crisis.

Denise Bolds: 12:12

Absolutely. There are towns here in upstate New York that are built around a prison. Because that is just how much commerce and how much money a prison brings into a community with employment and federal dollars, and just building communities around these prisons. It is amazing to see, but we do have them here in the state of New York. Absolutely.

Ravae Sinclair: 12:34

Hey, girl. It's big money. So yeah, Black maternal health crisis is big money.

Denise Bolds: 12:38

Big Money. Big Money!

Ravae Sinclair: 12:41

These grants being granted people

Denise Bolds: 12:44

Oh, yeah. People get money, you know, and it's just really sad. The latest trend here in New York is induction. Everybody's being offered an induction. Oh, well, you know, you want me to catch your baby, right? Well, you know, I'm not on call when you go into labor, I'm off call this the rest of the month. So if you want me to catch your baby, let me induce you so I can catch your baby.What?!?!

Ravae Sinclair: 13:08

Tell him the story, Girl. Y'all we had this--- we had this call-- Denise had to call and tell me. I'm like "What???!!"

Denise Bolds: 13:15

I'm like, No, my Black client, she's in her 30s. She's an attorney, born with a congenital heart defect and had at 17 had to put into pacemaker, but she's absolutely healthy and fine, got pregnant and wants an unmedicated vaginal birth. They were like, Okay, great. She went to this wonderful this quote unquote, wonderful Black Doctor spend 10 months with this doctor at the very end of the last trimester, the last week of the pregnancy, oh, I'm no, I'm not on call for the rest of the month to catch your baby, you're gonna have to go with another doctor in the practice. So my client is like, but wait a minute, I've been with you all this time. You know, this is, you know, you didn't give me a chance to even you know, interact with the other people in the office. She goes, Well, if you want me to catch your baby, I can induce you, and I'll catch your baby. And my clients like no, I want to go into labor spontaneously and have my baby and you know, not have an epidural. So she says, Well, you're gonna have to have somebody else do it. So my client got it in her head. Okay, I'm gonna have somebody else catch my baby. And she went and had a spontaneous vaginal birth with no epidural or anything. And she Nailed it. Nailed it. But this doctor wanted to give this healthy woman an induction just to catch your baby because oh, well, if you liked me so much, let me induce you so I can catch your baby. We have to change these parameters around inductions. And that's why you know, for black women do VBAC I'm offering this three our contact our certified training for doulas on how to negate and advocate in instances of an induction for your clients. Absolutely. Yeah, absolutely.

Ravae Sinclair: 14:52

I mean, it was you know, it was a version of bait and switch, right?

Denise Bolds: 14:56

3 card Monty! Like, what the hell is going on here?!

Ravae Sinclair: 15:01

Yeah. And you know, this goes back to all skin folk ain't kinfolk!

Denise Bolds: 15:05

No! because she did that doctor knew a month in advance where her that her on call schedule was like she knew. And she also knew that she could justify an induction or any other procedure because of the woman's medical situation Correct!

Ravae Sinclair: 15:18

She could justify it on the paper, which makes it easy for her to be one of these people who gets their care managed.

Denise Bolds: 15:25

Yep, and gets the dollars for it. But my client, and I had a great rapport, I was able to very transparently talk to her and tell her you're being played, sis. And she's like, Oh, I feel I feel it. So we got a plan together. And she went into spontaneous labor and had an amazing birth. And the doctor who actually caught her baby was magnificent, great person, we had a great time. But this is how our Black women are being played. And these doctors are talking out of both sides of their mouths.

Ravae Sinclair: 15:55

Yeah, enticing and pulling them in so they can get the dollar. And they get paid after a certain amount before the baby even comes, so it's like, oh, well, we'll just figure out how to make it fit. So because this doctor was not only not on the schedule, was the doctor going on vacation is that or she just

Denise Bolds: 16:12

wasn't on the she wasn't on the call schedule. And even with this extraneous circumstance of having a pacemaker client, this doctor was not going to put herself back on the schedule for this client. And this client picked her-- our families have to stop picking off the feelings and work off of facts. "Oh, but I really liked this doctor. She's so funny. She's so nice." Girl, is she gonna be there for you when you needed to be there? No, she's not. Is she gonna go the extra mile for you? No, she's not. She's not going to do it.

Ravae Sinclair: 16:39

So you did exactly what, what we hope all doulas would do is to remind her of her birth preferences which was to start labor on her own, to trust her in to encourage her to trust her body, your body can do this, there's nothing wrong with you. You doula'd her through that--you Doula That!, Girl!You do let her through that to like remind her, Hey, there's other people in the practice, you can start meeting with them prepare your body, we're going to stay the course just because this person is not going to be at your birth. Other people will who are capable. And it was another two weeks right of her walk around a little bit dilated and see, see your body's doing it. And then it didn't make any progress for a couple of days and then moved on. But you that's the doulaing part, right? Keeping them confident, focused, reminding them of their plan, trusting them in their bodies trusting that they hired capable--- a provider and trust the facility where they're birthing. And she did it like you said she rocked it. She got everything she needed and wanted and the only thing that was missing was the doctor who tried to do the bait n switch

Denise Bolds: 17:52

The Black doctor. She wanted this Black OB

Ravae Sinclair: 17:55

--the doctor tried to bait and switch her --doctor tried to bait and switch her. And that wasn't the one who should be present at her birth. So...

Denise Bolds: 18:03

She really did. She really tried to bait and switch or it was so sad and she saw it as she's she was crestfallen for a minute. She was sitting there like geez, you know, I went Black and I thought I was making the right decision on that. You know?

Ravae Sinclair: 18:16

Yeah,

Denise Bolds: 18:17

I had to pump her up. And this is where doulas are so important because no people are at this point clinicians are really not very accustomed to physiologic births anymore. doulas are

Ravae Sinclair: 18:28

Yeah, normal, physiologic birth. Yeah. Letting time pass and yeah, leaving people alone and letting their hormones figure it Let their bodies doit. Let the baby and let the whole body brain baby situation work. And boom, she did an amazing, amazing job and so proud of her. And it was it was a lot it was a lot but she she did it the right way she was compliant. She was never in any kind of a negative space with the with the clinicians or anything. But she also had her team. She had her team with

Denise Bolds: 19:00

her and she did very, very well.

Ravae Sinclair: 19:00

She had her husband. She had you.

Denise Bolds: 19:04

She had her husband, she had me, she had her mom there. We had an amazing journey and the Black Doctor Who bait and switched her. That's not cool. We and we will be advising our clients on these scenarios as they come up. Because the more you are aware and awake of what's going on, the better. You can take the proper precautions to make sure that you're still getting the goals that you want.

Ravae Sinclair: 19:29

Yeah, it's a matter of you know, on the backhand side, you just take note of this doctor, this provider, and if you have a client coming in the future, just like "well. be aware." And you can help your client make a better a more informed decision about who they should hire to be supportive of them in their birth.

Denise Bolds: 19:49

That's right. That's right. Yeah, it was great. It was great. But yeah, New York is it's definitely changed and you and I've talked about this, Ravae. The pandemic has changed the birth arena. It's totally different.

Ravae Sinclair: 20:03

Absolutely. It's totally different 2018 2017. I started in 2014. So from 2014 to 2019, when the pandemic was just about to kick off and be labeled as something, birth completely is different now than it was back then totally different. Yeah. Okay. I'm gonna say this. I think it's different in in good ways and some negative ways.

Denise Bolds: 20:27

Correct.

Ravae Sinclair: 20:28

I think --if so, the positive I'll give a positive.

Denise Bolds: 20:31

Yes.

Ravae Sinclair: 20:32

They were saying all through the pandemic, stay home, stay home, stay home, you're not sick. And there is what I think the pandemic brought forward was being pregnant is not an illness.

Denise Bolds: 20:45

There you go.

Ravae Sinclair: 20:45

So then it begs the question, then why are we birthing in places where people only really go there when they're sick?

Denise Bolds: 20:55

Yep, yep. Yep.

Ravae Sinclair: 20:56

I really think it gave credence to staying home as long as possible. And also maybe finding an out of hospital option. We didn't even have it. We didn't have enough out of out of hospital options for birthers. And some people who never thought that they would birth unmedicated, it certainly made that thng happen.

Denise Bolds: 21:12

Yeah, yeah,

Ravae Sinclair: 21:14

they made that thing happen. So I think that that was like one of the really positive components of the pandemic, one of the negative components, we really saw the power and control of hospital policies, keeping us out regulating how many people came in, and they were very slow to curl to roll that back when, when we had a vaccine, and when less fewer people were getting sick, and the hospital had capacity to manage. I mean, I think we saw people's true colors. And we saw the truth it during the pandemic. The truth is you don't need to birth in a hospital with some support and really an education. You can birth without medication, and you can birth at home safely and never have to go anywhere and risk anything. And that's not everybody, but a lot of people a lot more people can then do. And then we also saw that the hospital really doesn't see us as part of the team birth workers do. Didn't see us as part of the team. And they would like to control us as much as possible. We saw a lot of the disdain and the negativity of that they have towards us were a nuisance. And yeah, that was revealing. And now we're navigating that but I like that we're operating in the truth. Now. We I'm so glad to see who you are. And we won't encourage our clients to go to your facilities. We won't encourage our clients to sign up for your services.

Denise Bolds: 22:37

No, absolutely not. Absolutely not working here in New York on making institutions doula friendly. But I do agree, Ravae, the pandemic has changed things, some of the things that I've worked now with my clients, if there's your will, it will be a way and instead of leaning so much on what's there, lean on yourself, lean on what you're capable of doing. And many of my clients had an unmedicated birth and a pandemic, they didn't want to stay in the hospital, they had that 10s unit, they hypnobirth They did whatever they did at home, got to the hospital and active labor fully push the baby out right back home. And you know, it worked. It definitely worked. You know, the downside is we saw exactly like you said, how hospitals regard doulas as disposable disposable entities. And it was only you know, because of the former Governor Cuomo who said they're essential. They are essential workers here in New York. And we will label them as such. And I'm so glad that he was able to do that. Because we were we had a seat at the table. And you're right, they did slowly pull back a lot of stuff, slowly pull it back, pull it back, pull it back. And so now we're fighting to get doulas into the to the operating rooms, where they're so needed and making sure that you know that surgical birth is just as supported as that vaginal birth and labor and delivery room. But, um, you know, also to the pandemic really, truly showed us that virtual work works. Okay, it works. And it also showed us that these doctors and nurses are human, they burn out, they get sick, they leave the profession, you know, they're weathered out. Okay, and what we're not talking about is the crisis in this country of the lack of physicians and nurses and mental health experts. Oh, COVID tapped us out.

Ravae Sinclair: 24:21

Oh, yeah, absolutely. We're seeing a shortage everywhere. We're still seeing the need for traveling nurses. But people are leaving the profession. I think I told you didn't one of the websites. I saw our Facebook groups or nurses looking for alternatives like, Okay, this isn't gonna work. They're burned out. Yeah,

Denise Bolds: 24:39

they're running from the long run and they want to be postpartum doulas a night care specialists and they want to get out of the l&d department because it is just so caustic and intense, and weathering. It's just, you know, the amount of stress in those departments. It's just unreal.

Ravae Sinclair: 24:59

You Yeah, I think the culture the culture that existed before the pandemic finally collapsed on them. All of that top down pressure, pressure, pressure, the long hours the micromanaging, you got to write down every single thing otherwise you it's on your license, or you're gonna get deemed all of that pressure came crashing down and crashing down on them. And I think, yeah, they want to stay in the services- service field, but not in the hospital. I guess for me, I'm like if I don't want to work there, then I definitely don't want to birth there. I mean, I'm just I'm saying, Get me outta here! but several hospitals in New York after the pandemic, even in the pandemic, they incorporated hiring doulas on their l&d floors and their mother baby uniforms because they saw that manpower was actually supporting the nurses. Mm hmm. Yeah, I you know, during the pandemic, we watched how nurses tried to take over the doulaing role and it's just impossible, they already have so many things that they're doing. It's impossible and and I think that when you're in the task mindset of putting things in the computer and tracking when baby's first of breath and all that you can't also be attending to the emotional needs of the birthing person, or any of the parents or anybody in the room, the loved ones, you can't do both. Doulaing is its own skill. It's its own unique role not to ever be confused or think you can double double it up with another job another role, we are a valid, self sustaining, standing on our own role in the birth space, and not to be remixed with other people. That's just not what we can do. That's

Denise Bolds: 26:17

No, no,

Ravae Sinclair: 26:32

That's not what people need.

Denise Bolds: 26:45

Yeah, and I'm very protective over the the title of doula so when these celebrity wives and stuff want to call themselves doulas because they sit on boards and stuff like that. It's like a you're not here catching vomit and wiping asses the way I am. You're not doing hip squeezes. You're not sleeping on the radiator, you're not sleeping on a birth ball while your client is laboring, and you're trying to you know, rest with them and be with them. So you know, I'm really very protective of the of the doula profession. And that's why you know, with my doctorate degree, I'm really looking forward to doing more of the research and showing exactly what was happening to doulas as well. Because

Ravae Sinclair: 27:26

I agree with you, but the examples you gave, that's not all we do, right? Because that's just some of the stuff that shows up in the birth space. Our relationship started, weeks and weeks and weeks ago, where the phone call at night in the middle of the night. Hey, having some breakthrough bleeding, where the phone call in the middle of the afternoon, Hey, I just left a doctor's appointment. Everything looks great. We're the Hey, I get nauseous when I eat now what what might be things that I can eat or what's going on? We're there all along the way. We're there in the quiet spaces long before any contraction comes. We're building that relationship in that connection. There is so much that goes into our work that people don't see it. Oh, keep in one of my clients was like, I can sleep well tonight just knowing that this relationship, this this transaction, this relationship we're building is secure.

Denise Bolds: 28:20

That's right,

Ravae Sinclair: 28:21

--that I have you. I can go I can sleep well tonight. Um, it's it's not only just crossing off my to do list, but I feel relieved. And I was like, okay, yes, I'm glad I could do that for you. Because she knows she has a phone number, a text thread to call check in and anything she needs. We're going to figure it out. That's right. I gave her a tremendous amount of relief. And so our work is well beyond that hospital room. And sometimes that's what we feel underappreciated. But I'm like, Y'all keep going. We know what we do!

Denise Bolds: 28:56

Don't give up.

Ravae Sinclair: 28:57

We know what we do. We know how we do. Let me do it.

Denise Bolds: 29:01

I'm telling you doulas. We know the trends before they even become trends. We know where the bones are buried. We know who's good and who's great. We know what the, you know, what's going to help the community or Harmik. community, we have so much insight because we're there. We're on the frontlines, and we're there. So I'm just really grateful of the of the practice. And but I do know, like you said, and we were just talking about Yeah, the pandemic has put a different decor on birth work.

Ravae Sinclair: 29:30

Yeah. And I think it's great to talk about it because one of the things that we have to acknowledge is that a lot of people who are in the doula space now came into the doula space in the pandemic, right. During the pandemic, they came virtually and so they actually don't have any recollection. Nor should they have what it was like before. They just know the now and because they're really just now getting into the birthing space. They don't even know really what now is And so I think I'm glad we have our platform where we can highlight how things have changed and what things people need to pay attention to. Because I don't know if anybody's really talking about it.

Denise Bolds: 30:10

No, they're not talking.

Ravae Sinclair: 30:11

How would doulas even know if we don't talk about it. So we'll make sure we keep talking about it. Okay. Well, I think we should wrap this up. I feel like, um, let's think through any takeaways that we might want to offer, folks, but I think we can. We can wrap it up. But are you sure?

Denise Bolds: 30:34

Ravae's nails are looking nice and sharp, she's ready to go.

Ravae Sinclair: 30:38

I'm moving in the right direction. Y'all!

Denise Bolds: 30:41

She's got the Queen wave ready to go here? She's ready to go. Yeah.

Ravae Sinclair: 30:46

I think what we want to leave folks with for for this particular discussion is think about being collaborative. That's the least what I want to leave people with, I really have been sitting and thinking about the folks where there's been some competition or some kind of contention. And I'm like, Yeah, let's leave that behind. Let's, let's move forward. Like there's probably some really great things that we can do together. And probably things that like, you're doing stuff, and I'm not even in that that lane. We had mentioned before we got on the call. We were talking about the Grammys, and Taylor Swift, this constant comparison of Taylor Swift and Beyonce. And, and I will say and listen, Beyonce was confidently on the floor, because she's thinking, listen, if I'm not even in your same category, on knowing she knew what she knew, which was, hey, in two weeks, I'm dropping the country album, a country music album. I'm not even in your lane, girl. You're not even in mine.

Denise Bolds: 31:45

So not at all. Yeah,

Ravae Sinclair: 31:47

sometimes you just gotta go forward, unbothered. But

Denise Bolds: 31:51

you have to,

Ravae Sinclair: 31:52

yeah, super helpful for people to realize I'm we're not competing. We're collaborating,

Denise Bolds: 31:56

not at all and in leadership, if you want to do that, and we probably talked about this on the next segment, another segment, you have to be willing to have the hard conversations. You have to be willing to have the hard conversation. So you know, that stuff is very important. And we're going to talk about that again on another podcast for birth workers to really understand and understand what's happening with these millennial and these these "in the pandemic trained" doulas, because there is there is there is a difference. There is a difference. Definitely.

Ravae Sinclair: 32:26

Yeah, yeah. So we'll speak to it. Okay, everybody. Well, we'll see you on the next episode. Thank you for joining us. We're a little rusty. We're getting back into it after the new year. But I would be remiss if I didn't close us out by saying Happy Black History Month! We're out here!

Denise Bolds: 32:42

Black history 365. Baby! 365.

Ravae Sinclair: 32:45

Exactly. I know it's easy to forget because you're like I do this every day. All right. Well, make sure you out there Doualing That!

Denise Bolds: 32:53

Doula That!

Ravae Sinclair: 32:54

Doula That, Baby!