Length: 30:05

SUMMARY KEYWORDS

election feedback, organization transparency, membership meeting, certification report, financial decline, membership loss, leadership issues, election process, translation needs, meeting minutes, revenue decline, nonprofit accountability, doula training, membership engagement, transparency advocacy

SPEAKERS

Denise Bolds, Ravae Sinclair

Ravae Sinclair

Okay. Well, hello everybody. I'm Ravae,

Denise Bolds

I'm Denise,

Ravae Sinclair

and we are helping you

Denise Bolds

do that. Here we are. Here we are. Now we got now

Ravae Sinclair

listen, everybody, give us grace. We are the day after, the day after the election. And we're while this episode is not about to be about the election. You probably gonna hear some energy. Yeah, okay, we are. This episode is specifically about a recent meeting we attended. We had a chance to attend a meeting of an organization that we formerly were leaders of, because we maintain membership and we, we, we, yeah, there were some things. There was some interesting observation. So this is a feedback, but really the reason why we're even having this conversation about this organization because Denise bold has her own organization. Black women do V back. Yes, sure, I have my own organization, National Birth and postpartum professionals, so trust we're not hating but I think that we're doing a public service by helping some folk who really may not see what we know and see because we were on the inside. So I thought it was, it would be helpful for those folks who belong to the organization named as Don International, to be able to see what we see as folks who have come out, and we're just shaking our heads, and we hope that if you continue to become to be members of this organization, that maybe You'll use some of this information to create accountability, because they tout themselves as a nonprofit, which means the organization belongs to the public. When an organization belongs to the public, you have a responsibility to make information public, and there's a few inconsistencies that kind of check the box, but don't pass the smell test. And as long as I'm a member of the organization, and as long as you're a member of the organization, I think that there are some things that you should be watching out for to make sure that it really is an organization that belongs to the public. Okay, so I don't have my list in front of me, but I'm you gotta you got a few tips? Should I very first observation?

Denise Bolds

Well, you know, it was a member meeting, and they, they did do all of this for us. And you know, every year after the conference, Dona has their member meeting where members who, you know, you don't have to attend the conferences or anything, but you can come in and get the information on the current standing of the organization from the leadership within the organization. And this is supposed to be a very full, transparent information sharing, but I don't. I don't always see it that way. I really and truly don't Ravae And I have always been the ones talking about, where is the meeting minutes that is not posted on a regular basis. It has not been posted in several years, meeting minutes with agendas attached and the budget. The budget should be available for public record, for members to be able to review and to be able to ask questions if they if they would like to, and that has not happened. So they had this member meeting. It was facilitated by the board of directors and the leadership of the organization. And I was able to keep some I was able to keep some slides from this, because I just wanted to see exactly what was going on, as far as what was being said, what was being happening here. So, you know, as Ravae said, they they say that they're a non for profit, but they are, they are making money. I mean, the organization is making money. I've always been very, very curious on the amount of members that they have, and you know what? What's happening with the membership? So I do have a screen share on that.

Ravae Sinclair

As far as turn on this sharing? Yeah,

Denise Bolds

that'd be great, because I have it here for everybody to say, so you could see that. Yeah, so this is this, is it here? Let me just make that big. It's bigger.

No, it's good. It's good.

Denise Bolds

. So as you can see here, for: 2024

Ravae Sinclair

certified? Pawan, yeah, the pie chart, that's the one, yeah. The

Denise Bolds

t here, yeah. So we have over: 2000

Ravae Sinclair

So can you share that one? Because we still see the Certification Report, the we see, oh, sorry

Denise Bolds

about that. Thanks. Yeah, I always get this zoom gets me every time

Ravae Sinclair

I know I know I need a Okay, here we go. Can

Denise Bolds

you see that now? Yeah,

Ravae Sinclair

there we go. There we go. Okay, that's

Denise Bolds

and then it's just over: 2000

Ravae Sinclair

rs at a dramatic rate back in: 2007

Denise Bolds

flew through certain slides on this member meeting. And what we have to understand is the membership is indicative of the sign of the times. As prince would say, you know what's happening. To keep members engaged, to keep the membership roster up, I don't see a membership drive from this organization annually. Don't see anything like that. Now, don't give them

Ravae Sinclair

no tips, no ideas. Hold on. Don't know that's not what we're here for. We don't, we don't. We're not in that position anymore. Okay, remember that. But what

Denise Bolds

I do see is, I do see a lot of of fishing on social media, um, I used to be donor, or did you? Did you let go of your donor certification or your membership, and why I get I see those queries come up monthly. Monthly, someone is throwing something up in social media asking if you were a donor member and you're no longer a member. Why? Well,

Ravae Sinclair

I've only seen that actual question happen once in doula talk when. Recently, and it had over 300 comments. I don't see Donna actually working to find out why people are not staying with them. I don't think the leadership is actually asking enough questions. No, I'm gonna disagree with you on that. I think I see people saying I'm thinking, I'm gonna do Donna tell me why you did or because they're brand new. People who are trying to figure out, should I do this? Is this? Well, that's what

Denise Bolds

I'm saying. That's the post that I'm seeing. I'm not seeing anything from donor I'm seeing it from the doula community. Trying to figure out what's what's up?

Ravae Sinclair

Oh, yeah, I agree with that, yeah, trying to figure out if this is the right space for them. Do you have, do you have the slide where they talk about income? Because I always think it's interesting people don't realize that Donna is was when we were it were a million dollar company annual, this one that is revenue and expenses. So this is new, okay, yeah, so this is their income. So they're a little under 800,000 right under a little under 750,000 last year, and they're underneath that this year. So this matches what we're saying. They're losing ground with doulas because they make their money from membership dues. So all the money that people pay for these donor trainer workshops, that money does not go to donor. And up until just two or three years ago, none of that money went to donor. Donor wasn't collecting any money. Those trainers were for profit, private, small businesses. All those dollars were belong to the trainer. Mm, hmm. So recently, and that was something that happened right about the time we left some the trainers were having to pay per head into the larger organization to make money. So that meant now Donna's, uh, money comes from the membership dues $100 and it also comes from the trainers having to pay per head for how many people are in their workshops. Okay, but even with that, their revenue is still lower this year than it was last year, and it's about three or $400,000 less than it was two years ago when Denise and I were sitting on that board. Oh yeah, oh yeah. They're losing ground. They're losing ground,

Denise Bolds

they're losing ground, and they're not,

Ravae Sinclair

they're not the boss that they were. No, this

Denise Bolds

is a: 2024

is way love.

Denise Bolds

So this is definitely going into what that is contributions. You would think contributions would be a lot higher, but it is not. It is not well, contributions

Ravae Sinclair

are not high, because who's going to give to an organization where you can't get a tax break, right? Donna is a 501 c6, six. They are not a 501 3b, right? Okay, so I can you can contribute, but then you don't get a write off. People don't like that, and they mentioned in the member meeting that they were hoping to finally create a foundation or something. They've been talking at Yin gang for six, seven years. You can't remix. You are who you are. You can't have both, which is why my solution when I was in the presidency was to create a separate Foundation, right with its own board, where money can be donated. There's so much good that all of these members could be doing to benefit the community. They haven't done it.

Denise Bolds

No, hasn't happened. No, it just hasn't happened. So scholarships,

Ravae Sinclair

helping birth centers, I mean literally, partnering with organizations, but nevertheless, we'll just be doing that through National Birth and postpartum professionals. Yeah. So

Denise Bolds

these are just like I said, the financials that are going on here. Membership Dues, that $100 every, every year. You know, that's, that's what you know you're paying into just to, you know, have that certification to get me into a hospital. That's the only reason why I'm there, to be honest, so,

Ravae Sinclair

and that's why lots of people are there. That recent post in doula talk, people are like, I'm only, I'm only staying for the letters, Mm, hmm. They do nothing for me. They all they do is they email me and ask me for money. I give it. I don't hear from them for another year or two.

Denise Bolds

Yeah, yeah. So let me see about the other the other one. I just want to see about the under

Ravae Sinclair

doing that. I also I noticed the difference in the tone of the meeting, like in the past, you know, it would be very big, bright, gregarious, almost entertaining. This was very monotone, and a couple of personalities were notably missing, yes, yes. And you know, specifically the big wooer who backstabbed us right and became the president, who apparently is out here telling people that members voted for her, although nobody remembers voting for her, because nobody voted for her. She was never on a ballot. Those are receipts. We can pull up receipts. She was never on a ballot. She was never voted for. Her. But, you know, runs around talking about hashtag trained by Nakia. Hashtag trained by Nakia, well, you're lying. You were never voted in or elected by the members they appointed you after you conspired with them to get rid of me and Denise, because we had an agenda to take care of everyone. Right?

Denise Bolds

We sure did. We most certainly did, and she

Ravae Sinclair

was notably missing from that member meeting, yes, and they need her, quite honestly, because it was, it was so boring. It was like one,

Denise Bolds

no, but you know, things come around, things happen. Things happen. And you know, it's okay. Let's see where that person lands. I don't, I don't

Ravae Sinclair

know, not talking about her, talking about how they needed that personality. They needed that energy. Oh yeah, yeah, who was taking the time to come to a meeting where they're not really learning anything? And here's always been my issue with the Member Meeting content. The slides come up fast the data, while it's factual, because they got to tell the facts, it's not actually really explained or revealed. If you really wanted to have a member meeting and you wanted it transparent, you would actually give me this data, these slides electronically, and you would give it to me in advance so that we can have a engaged meeting. Yeah, prepared to a member should be able to come and say, I have questions, and the floor the member should be running the meeting. That it should be about the members. Other members should be able to hear from other members about their questions, their concerns, what they see, what they don't see, what they're worried about, what's working, what isn't working. This was just a little rehearsed script of here's what I've done. Which? What do you always say about these meetings? What is it

Denise Bolds

they're reading their job descriptions, right? So

Ravae Sinclair

if I, for example, this international whatever director, Carolyn trancer, so we got her talking about, oh, I want to have more meetings. We want to expand the membership, and we want to do translation. Well, how long we've been talking about doing translation, but I could translate on Google into like, what, what is the what does? How long does it take? How long to do that? Then you wouldn't the two of people on the screen who, one week before, they dismissed us unceremoniously with no explanation to date, if you really wanted to be more accessible in languages, you would have followed up, because the current certification director, Terry Nava Anderson, was in came, popped in in a meeting, spying on us while we were meeting with Spanish speaking members with the goal of translating and integrating our Spanish speaking doulas more into the fabric of that organization, because we saw that they were not being served. They were disenfranchised, and we have made a priority. Remember, we did the priority in the budget to translate everything out of English into Spanish.

Denise Bolds

We sure did. We sure did. And don't forget, we've had two Spanish speaking presidents in donors history, and they never put things in translation from English to Spanish either.

Ravae Sinclair

There's several sitting on the board, including the previous certification director, Diana, who's down in Florida. I

Denise Bolds

don't understand how we can't get Spanish. And, you know, we were also working on Haitian Creole, but first and foremost, you you still, all these years, you still can't get Spanish. You still don't.

Ravae Sinclair

They have an ambassador in Iowa who asked for a French translation. It took months, when I say months, like 10 months, to get a response. Oh, yeah. Let me ask the board. They said, if you, if you pay for the translation, we need to have it. We you need to give it to us. So I said to her, wait, wait. They want you to pay for translation of their documents, and then they want access to your translation. They want you to pay for it privately. But this is a million dollar organization.

Denise Bolds

It is a million dollar organization, and they're not addressing the very basic needs of the community, and that is to have things translated in multiple languages. And it's not hard to do well.

Ravae Sinclair

It's not besides that, what I my biggest, biggest takeaway from the member meeting was no real transparency. There's a still that don't sit well with me. They just had an election. Where was the information about the candidates? There was no we usually there's a bio, there's a video. You have a circle or meeting where you can ask the candidates questions, whether it's online or a live Zoom meeting, there was nothing. It was like, these are your candidates, nothing. You didn't even get a chance to learn about them. The second issue with the election was they just told us who it was. There was only one candidate for president, but remember when you ran, they delayed the presidency because you were the only eligible applicant. And you were told by Melissa Harley that you couldn't be the only president candidate for president on the ballot. Well, what changed in the last couple years? Now they're appointing presidents with no members voting, and now you they can put up one candidate for president. When that when you were the one of when you applied, they couldn't.

Denise Bolds

Oh God, they kept me. They kept me on hold for months because they could not get another candidate to run against me. Yeah, oh yeah,

Ravae Sinclair

we get and you've got the candidates

Denise Bolds

we these are the candidates that we have now that have been elected. And it's like, okay, competition. Where's the competition? Um, Erica ran by herself. I wasn't allowed to run by myself, but Erica was. And it's just, it's really and truly amazing. You know,

Ravae Sinclair

where is it? So we were just what the members were expected, just rubber stamp knowing, again, no engagement. You have an election process. We just, we're, we're the two days post election. You have a whole election process and there's no engagement,

Denise Bolds

no engagement. I still you just I don't know anything about what I do know here about Erica. Erica does not have anything on here on her bio that indicates to me that she has any leadership skills.

Ravae Sinclair

She became a dual in: 2021

Denise Bolds

no competition, no competition, no experience. And you know, she's checking the box. She's a woman of color. Oh, you can't say Don is racist, because we've got another black woman coming in. You can't say donors racist. We let go Denise and Ravae, you can't say we're racist. We put, we put mouth in here. It's like, yeah, that you can't use that. Can't use that, yeah,

Ravae Sinclair

well, now they don't even full word mouth. No. Nikita, no, yes. Hilarious. I think it's hilarious. But again, a lot of this is about being able to help newer doulas who are like, what's going on here? Yeah, you have a member meeting where members don't even talk. We weren't even allowed to be on screen, only the speakers. You have a member meeting where you only engagement opportunities in the chat, and everybody's like, hyping one another up. And that's not engagement. You have an election process where you don't actually have any involvement. And then the thing that really gets me before we run out of time, is I made a request of a donor ambassador to question them about meeting minutes. Meeting minutes are missing for three full years on donor connect, they're supposed to be posted up within a reasonable amount of time on for members to know what was voted on, What decisions did the board make with your money, and what does the future hold for Donna? Three years of meeting minutes missing from that meeting, from from Donna Connect. When she inquired, they said, we'll get back to you. They got back to her. She got back to me. She said she read the meeting minutes, and they say nothing there. It's unclear about what was the actual call, what was the motion, what was the question, and what was the content, what was the discussion? She specifically went back and said, Well, what's the agenda? I want to at least match the agenda with the meeting minutes, so I know what direction you were going in. She was told by the Director of Communications, Joyce dagma, that that's confidential, that the agenda that they go into the meeting with is, is confidential. You mean it? I, as a member, cannot know what you guys went into the meeting to talk about. I can only see these very vague decisions in in a in the meeting minutes. And by the way, I haven't seen a decision in the meeting minutes for three years.

Denise Bolds

No and the bylaws have changed also in this organization that members have not been made aware of, nor were we

Ravae Sinclair

were allowed to vote. Well, they would know that the bylaws changed unless they saw the meeting minutes, which Ain't nobody seen one for three years. So there's that. But you and I know that the bylaws have changed because of how they're bringing in, first of all, this election process with no, with no, not with not dual candidates, that's a change so, but you also how they're removing and bringing in people. So they brought in Nakia Lawson with no member vote. They brought in Hillary melkers with no member vote, not one, not one two presidents after they removed you and I on the first day of black maternal health, yes, two presidents come in with no member voting. Nope, nope. And this is the lack of transparency. So I we offering this. We're not mad. No, Boo Boo. Look how. Could we look I mean, you did me a favor. You did me a huge favor, thriving, thriving. Thank you, thriving, thriving. Okay, so we're not mad, but when you know something, it is really hard to stand on the sidelines like, I can only imagine what Michelle and Barack are like, what they know how hard it is to like see things going like injustices and people lying and not being transparent, and it's hard to hold it, so podcast, we ain't gotta hold it. So we're here to help folks who are part of this organization really see, yeah, you got all those financial slides. They slide through them really fast. But the key is, it's losing ground those certified members down, revenue down, and promises. These are things that you should have been doing. Translation. Y'all been saying that for 10 years. You talking about translating to something like Spanish. There was something else that they were talking about they were doing, like, to me, your certification process, okay, you made it faster, easier? Well, it has, it lacks integrity, with no parent signature, no medical person signature anymore. People and I heard through the grapevine, people are making up their three births. People are falsifying their certification documents because they're trying to get certified because now carrot requires it. They want to get reimbursed. They're trying to become a certified doula by any means necessary. And the lack of accountability in their rush and donors rush to make it easier, they've also created less integrity. So we got doulas out here are certified, who are totally lying about their process. And it's not that this organization isn't aware that that's happening. But when you are driven by revenue, because you have to pay a management company, you're going to turn the other cheek, you're going to look the other way. And that's a problem for all of us to have doulas in our pool who are not qualified. They could drop babies, hurt babies, they can do all kinds of things. And it impacts us as a as a at as a, at a fundamental level, in terms of the profession, I totally agree. Totally agree anyway, not about that. Y'all help give you some insight. If you're a member of this organization, or if you're thinking about joining this organization, you might want to think twice, or if you do choose, I'm not telling you not to choose. I'm a member. Denise is a member. We have our reasons. But know what to look for. Ask more questions, push back because it matters. It matters to for the greater good. And be responsible. Be a responsible member. Hold their feet to the fire, because we see, I want to see what happens when you don't I

Denise Bolds

want to see every organization on their website every year to have the number of doula certified, number of membership, I want to see a link to their annual report that you can look at with their budget. All of that is full transparency. And many major organizations have this. It is time for doula organizations to be transparent. And yeah. So I want doula organizations to be transparent on their websites. They need to have this information so that somebody is coming to their website. You need to know how many members you have, how many members are certified, how many people trained a year? And they need a separate site where you can see exactly what their their actual budget and and what does it look like? How much you know? Are they pulling in annually? That should be for public consumption,

Ravae Sinclair

right? And I think for public consumption for nonprofit orgs, because we can't ask. So, because they belong to the public, they're getting a benefit from the public. The public is subsidizing those organizations. It makes total sense for transparency. In fact, the IRS, the government, expects transparency. If you want to know what nonprofit doula training organizations, how much money they're making, what they're doing with the money, you can go to a website. I don't have it, but I can link it in the show notes. Or you can look up their 990 their 990 statement will tell you some of the financial information. It won't tell you the organization's budget, it won't tell you what rules they've made or what policies they've changed, but it will give you the bottom line. You'll see the numbers. And so if you want to verify what we're saying about this particular organization, zone International, you can go look at their 990s

Denise Bolds

they and I are putting together something real cool for everybody we're

Ravae Sinclair

working on that, yeah, we have a resource that'll give a lot more transparency, because there's so many options in terms of doula or birth worker trainings that consumers really do need and deserve more information. And so we're gonna put together a little something and launch it in the in the coming weeks for you all as a reliable resource so you can get the information you need right up front. We can't preach transparency and not be transparent ourselves. There you go. There you go. All right, everybody, well, that's our episode for today. Thank you for joining us. We are happy to help you do that. Yeah. Everybody, take care. We'll see you next time bye, bye.