3 Months!

Length: 35:25

SUMMARY KEYWORDS

doulas, people, birth, families, good, training, nurses, denise, feel, birthing, business, months, profession, inductions, creating, space, postpartum, happening, support, workers

Ravae Sinclair

Okay. I don't remember how we started.

Denise Bolds

We just said, doula that.

Ravae Sinclair

And it's like you would say, You're Denise. I'm vague, yeah. And

Denise Bolds

then we say, and doula that,

Ravae Sinclair

and we just go, okay, honey. Three months, three months, three months. Everybody. Okay, hello, everyone. I'm ravae Sinclair,

Denise Bolds

Hi. I'm Denise bolds,

Ravae Sinclair

and we are here to help you do that. There

Denise Bolds

you go. Yay, we're back.

Ravae Sinclair

We're at the dig for that. Y'all, it's been three full months, sat here in this space together to do this work with you, to do the podcast. So time has flown

Denise Bolds

so quick. It doesn't feel like three months, it feels like three hours, it feels like three days. It doesn't feel like it's been three months.

Ravae Sinclair

You're absolutely right, except I'm rusty as heck. I couldn't even remember how we were doing our intro girl, and because we did a little bit of a recording before this, and I don't even think it recorded like

Denise Bolds

the brain cells have been occupied. We weren't here with all of you, but the brain cells were occupied. That's all I'm gonna say.

Ravae Sinclair

Yeah, we've been doing stuff. Okay, so that's actually what we're gonna spend a little time catching you up, because there has been a gap. We were committed to doing weekly and bi weekly connections with you all, sharing wisdom, and, you know, all the things. And then, because we run our own businesses, we are the CEOs. We are also sometimes the Secretary and the accountant and the funder and all of the things. We got really, really busy. So, yeah, so some things have to go, you know, you got to be mature. Some things have to go by the wayside and, like, go on pause. And so we did that with the podcast. But I think it's, it's, I think it was good, I think it was healthy, and I think we're going to be better than ever. So let's share. Okay, so Denise, like over a big picture synopsis. What have you been doing?

Denise Bolds

g on being Dr Denise bolds by: 2025

Ravae Sinclair

That's amazing. Yeah, you know what? Sometimes you just gotta live. You just gotta take a little time and live. So I love that. I love that for you, I think we were kind of working on doing these weeklies. And then when we we, like, got off track because, like, one of our recording times was something you needed to do for school. Oh, yeah. And very quickly we couldn't even find a time, yeah, to get back on track. And then maybe when things are quieting down for you, they picked up for me, right, right, yeah, because I did, like, almost like, nine weeks straight of travel, like every there was one day was in some other state, some other city, doing, doing what we do, doing our work. Yeah, and yeah. And I think we just naturally let the podcast kind of take a pause.

Denise Bolds

It was a healthy pause. It was a healthy pause. It really was. Now we're back, yeah, but I'm back.

Ravae Sinclair

So I could answer my my question. So in these weeks, these three months, I have been I definitely I've been traveling. So I would say I've been business building in the way, I added independent contractors to my agency. Yes, growing, you know, the support that we do privately for families here in Atlanta, and continuing the work we do with families in Washington, DC, and working to expand our work in Dallas as well as we added a new city. Oops, almost got my drink. We added a new city. We added Phoenix, Arizona. Yeah, yes, serving families there and thinking about Durham, Raleigh area, adding a team that I have been working with anyway to help them in their doula training program. So yeah, so I've been doing like expanding the agency. I did a trip to North Carolina, University of North Carolina, Chapel Hill, where I helped teach in that program that's rooted in their medical school. I did, I did take a trip for pleasure, to the Outer Banks to hang with my sister for her 50th I took care of a family in Scottsdale, who's in Paris, you know, competing in the Olympics. So that was great to help an Olympian grow her family. Yeah, I've been designing courses. So, you know, I did a doula training. I did my inaugural postpartum so I've been doing that that is finishing up. Super excited for those new doulas that are helping families on the postpartum side. My goodness, I have. I launched the birth business building online training program, 45 hour program for folks who ready to go to the next

Denise Bolds

level, everything it's, everything

Ravae Sinclair

it is, it is, and I needed a break just to recover from that. So that business program is out there. I also did how to get started, just like the basics, like business startup. So I have a couple of online business trainings that have launched, like, quietly, they're just out there. And, yeah, I don't know all the things. I'm a busy board member with NAB, the National Association to Advance black birth, and we relaunched our black birthing Bill of Rights.

Denise Bolds

Yes, it's beautiful. Yes,

Ravae Sinclair

it is beautiful. And we're expanding our staff, so I've been busy supporting them in the role of the treasurer, so just trying to get through and make sure we are viable, vibrant, nonprofit, birth supporting organization out here. Yeah, so I feel like there's been, like, all those things, and there's more to come. But yeah, that's what three months. That's why it feels like we blinked. Because you and I have, like, not stopped talking. We've not stopped, you know, supporting one another. We just haven't been doing it for the podcast. No, no,

Denise Bolds

I've been calling revey from Thailand, like, oh God, talk to you, bro. And then just, just still growing. I mean, black women do VBAC. I'm still training. I created two new courses, advanced training courses for doulas. I'll be releasing those in the fall, having a nice big Tada, so you can get these additional two doula trainings, advanced doula trainings. I'm excited about those. Um, but yeah, we've been we've been busy,

Ravae Sinclair

busy. We've been busy, and so it's really been good to take a break, and I think it'll allow us to have, you know, a good, fresh perspective to offer birth workers. I feel like, since we've been gone, I'm like, What have y'all been doing? What? What have doula has been doing? So I am curious. Okay, so we've been gone, like, you know, doing life, but we've been paying attention. So for you Denise, like, what, what has stood out in three months time? Because I actually think this is a good chance he'll kind of, like, get a microscopic view of, like, how the birth world moves in these three months, what has stood out to you? Like the energy, the vibe in the birth world?

Denise Bolds

Well, you know, we've had some more maternal deaths. Of course, we've had some fetal deaths. Doulas are burnt out. Doulas are not staying in the profession long after receiving their training. Doulas are leaving. Nurses are leaving their profession and becoming doulas. That part, yeah, it's like, what? So there's been, there's been a lot of shifting, a lot of moving pieces post pandemic. I remember a lot of these people took their training in the pandemic virtually, and now they're coming out and realizing, like, Oh, this is more than you know what I thought. This is really intense. We've had some hospitals closed. We've had some hospitals merge. There's been a there's been a lot of moving pieces post pandemic, and I see a lot of it happening in the birthing space. We have a lot of inductions. Doulas all over are talking about everybody's getting an induction light. That's Halloween candy that's out here. Inductions are all over the place, and families are not prepared for these, especially when there's been no conversation until the last trimester, the I word. So yeah, there's been a lot of that going on. People are, are are transitioning. They're they're dying and leaving these gaps. We you know, of of who's going to be able to accept the baton and keep the work going. We've had that. So there's been a lot of transformation, a lot of moving pieces in the birthing space.

Ravae Sinclair

I agree, I agree with all of those. I definitely have seen those, and that's just in three months. Like that. Stuff had been happening for a while, but like, I've seen the intensity of all those things in the last three months, just like, stepping back and not talking about it, but like, yeah, watching it. I love the Facebook groups. You know, I'm a Facebook

Denise Bolds

guy. Those Facebook groups, be given some good tea, good tea,

Ravae Sinclair

I'd be loving. And they're just like, the worker, you know? I like all the lifestyle Facebook groups, black girls who shop at Target.

Denise Bolds

Oh, they are the best. Whoa.

Ravae Sinclair

I love all of that. I love all of that. I see the potential for how well those groups can change your life, okay, but in the birth space, and this is and I've been encouraging you newer doulas who are like, Oh, I don't do social media. I'm just social media. I tell people on my team, you want to build your business your but better be on social media. And whether you think Facebook is for old people or not. Facebook has a feature that other social media platforms don't have, which is that group feature, that private group feature, and being able to privately talk and chat and share it, that is community building. It's amazing. They are creating communities, and those communities really sustain people emotionally and help. And really, those groups are very lucrative, so they're sustaining a couple of people financially quite but those groups really give you a really good sense of the birth world, because we're isolated. I'm in my space. I might go to a birthing room, or I'm going to someone's house and doing postpartum. You're in your space. We're hardly as birth workers collectively, all in one space. We don't

Denise Bolds

like every day it's a challenge to get us all in one space, because the demands of the profession, it's not that easy.

Ravae Sinclair

So we have an unusual profession in that way is that like, unless you're connected to a collective or you see other doulas on a regular basis, you don't actually have a sense of community and like what is happening big picture, you may just be stuck on what's happening in your neighborhood, your community, like in your city. And if you don't have a good relationship with both workers in your city, you're really on the outs, you could be having a miserable professional experience. That's right. And so the Facebook groups really allow you to get community that goes worldwide. They really get support anyone. You can get advice from people. You can get pick me up that you need. So I really love the social media spaces. I particularly love the Facebook spaces, even though I don't spend a lot of time contributing in them anymore, right, right? But I will tell you what I've seen in the last three months, I have seen a lot of realizations. Okay, so I can categorize, like, some of the shenanigans. I can say, oh, people are realizing dot, dot, dot. I also say that I'm observing growth, but people are realizing number one. It's not number one in priority, but just the first thing that comes to the top of my head is the fallout of us losing reproductive rights. Yes, I think a lot of us are seeing how it's playing out with potential clients, with past clients, that the hoops that people are having to jump through and the challenges that people are facing now that maybe they can't easily gain a procedure or an opportunity right in their state, and now we're hearing the threat of if you Go to another state, or if you help someone go, you can, you can be prosecuted as well. Yes, yeah. So I think we're seeing the fall. I think some birth workers are really feeling the the pinch of the loss of reproductive rights, which is why voting in this election is really important. And don't even ask me who I'm going for, because you already know you look like me. She living like me. Okay? So she's an attorney like you, right? I'm she's a politician like I was. Yeah, we I'm voting my reflection 100% okay? I also think that there's some realizations about how to that people need business building skills. I see people reaching out more, wanting advice around business and how to, how to, I see that. I'm gonna tell you. I also see people minding a business more, yes, not like just their business business, but some people who I, I used to see, be very vocal and spend all this energy on social media. In the last three months, I really, I've seen some folk pull back, and mostly because I and I can assume that life is lifeing, Life is lifeing for them a little bit. So I think, yeah,

Denise Bolds

life and, oh, it's, it's kept, it's moving, yeah.

Ravae Sinclair

ell, okay, because, you know,: 2024

Denise Bolds

I have two words for you. P Diddy Justin Timberlake Drake, one word. I mean, these people

Ravae Sinclair

are catching it. It's like, what? Yeah, they were the golden goose. They were the golden folk for years and years and years. They're getting back some of what they put out, some seeds that they planted. Exactly. It's happening with folks that we know as well exactly. I think, I think there's a, yeah, it's a reckoning happening. I think it's really healthy. I It's good to see. I'm just gonna say like that, okay, I think the other thing I see is a building up a frustration over the thing that you mentioned, which is a lack of leadership. I see people really frustrated that they've sat here and they invested in a training, and they have no opportunity for continued connection or mentorship or a place to

Denise Bolds

learn. Okay, these doulas are coming out and they are saying, Hey, I can't go into a birthing room. I don't feel confident after taking this sitting here three days with this training, I can't do this. I can't tell you the stages of labor. That blows me away, or better yet, let's not teach the stages of labor. What

Ravae Sinclair

are you talking about? Listen, so I think that there is this frustration, and people are saying it, and they're wanting to be very careful about where they invest for their education, because the requirement has been raised that they have this opportunity to continue to learn and grow from someone. And so I think that that's great. I know you have a mentorship program. I'm relaunching mine in the fall, because the way I do it is so it's in depth. And so I was like, Oh, when I, when I first, like, soft launched it in March or April, I was like, Oh, I can do this. And then I was like, oh, no, no, no, can't do this because

Denise Bolds

it takes a lot to mentor. It takes a lot, yeah, it's a lot of responsibility.

Ravae Sinclair

And so to come, right? But there's, but there's a growing voice around like, if you are going to be out here, you need to be a responsible, yeah, and it has to go beyond that weekend, beyond we it's got to go beyond that weekend, right? So I'm hearing doulas. I'm watching doulas really say that this isn't enough. So I like that they're setting a standard and an expectation in our profession. I'd love to hear that. I also am seeing doulas, who I remember when they were brand new, are technically now starting to become experienced. I'm not going to call them seasoned, but more experienced maybe they've been in four or five years and they are burned out,

Denise Bolds

yeah, oh, they're done. They're done. Tapped Out, not burnt out, tapped out, tapped out, tapped out. So these now my practice, I'm not taking any more births done. There's that

Ravae Sinclair

f came into the profession in: 2018

Denise Bolds

it's the wild wild west out here right now. It really is. I mean, with the amount of inductions that are going on and the severity of the birth trauma, it's, it's like, Yo, this last one I just shared with you, it's like, with this vacuum extraction story, it's, it's, it's, it really is like one of those mad, Max kind of movies out here, but it's

Ravae Sinclair

just as bad and traumatic as the shoulder dystocia case here in Georgia. What do you mean decapitated, it's like, What

Denise Bolds

do you mean 15 attempts on a on a vacuum extraction, and this baby passes away the next day. Who stood by and let this clinician do that after the mother begged for a C section and begged him to stop like, what partners?

Ravae Sinclair

Partner? Watch that happen. Nurses stood by and watched that happen. It was no doula, no doula. But yeah, so I agree with you. We've got the wild wild west going okay. On the optimist side, I also feel like we have, we have a call for nurses who have been present for every single death, for every single birth, a call for accountability to them. I'm really happy about this, and I'm definitely going to be on board with this, like starting to do some projects around this, nurses becoming accountable for the role that they play in this entire system. People have been hollering for years about doulas, doulas, doulas, we are not the savior. We are not the fix it. We're not we are. We are there to kind of catch people who fall through the holes, and we're there to make sure people don't even get close to falling through the holes. But you know who is? If we're doulas aren't always present at a birth. Doctors aren't always present at a birth, and I've said this to you. You know who's always present at a birth, if it's in a nurse, is a nurse. And guess what they're doing? They're always documenting so they're paying attention and so on. Some of these nurses watches trauma is being inflicted and on. A lot of these nurses watches people are dying, yes, so if we're going to do some solution making, which I starting to see the pool. And like I said, You've been some of the organization I'm involved in. We're going to be pulling in nurses for that accountability. I'm really excited about that. I started in the last three months, I've been able to get tap into that energy around nurses, getting involved in their role in our current state of birth in the United States. I'm also excited to see you and I develop into educators, leaders in a different way, so not just in name of a training org, but actually doing advanced courses, really bringing people through to say, here's the 123, the 456, yep, I'm super excited about that. And that we've settled into that. It feels really good, because I think we spent a lot of time seeing the problem and then calling out the problem. Oh, and now we and hoping somebody else, the people we were working with and pulling forward, that they would step up as leaders to fill those holes. And now we're just doing it

Denise Bolds

well. Just Just, just go ahead. Don't, don't, don't wait on that, because you'll be simplified.

Ravae Sinclair

It didn't. We were just like, Okay, I'll go do it. Just go ahead and do and I

Denise Bolds

think that's the way the higher power wanted it to be, you know, I wanted to do the VBAC training underdog. And God was like, nope,

Ravae Sinclair

let it couch under another organization, right? And so just need to simplify. And, you know, I was born the same day as Gandhi. And Gandhi might be a controversial figure for some folks, but yes, I will say, you know, be the change you want to see has been like a really powerful energy that I've moved with throughout my careers, whether I was in law, here in the birth space, but it was like, Be the change you want to see. And so I love that, that that's what we're embodying, really creating, yeah, creating solutions. Yeah. So the to me, the state of birth, like I said, in addition to the Wild Wild West, I also see these a couple of pockets, those two that I just named as, like some there's innovation. I actually feel like we're in a good space, post pandemic, where it's like, what do people need? There is an opportunity to really create what you yourself need. And so I just, I don't know, I feel, I feel pretty optimistic. It's been good to walk, zoom out for these three months and tap back in, like, in this platform. I like, I love that we're just doing what, doing us and and I want to see more birth workers do that. Um, yeah. So we can continue to see change, yeah. So, yeah, it's

Denise Bolds

a different perspective. When you take a break, kind of do a little detox, kind of do a little detox, and then come back in, it's like, oh, okay, okay, I can do this. I can do that. I'm going to take this on. I'm going to put this down, and, you know, I'm going to move this way, or whatever. But yeah, this is, this was necessary. This was definitely less because also, don't forget, you and I worked straight through the pandemic. We were not sitting at home looking out the window. We were in hazmat suits driving out here, getting getting nasal swaps to the point of nosebleeds. So it's, you know, it was a totally, it was, it was a time out here. So I think this, I think the pause was, was definitely necessary.

Ravae Sinclair

I agree. I just said to somebody the other day, while, you know, people, you know, we weren't sure how long we were going to be at home, right? And so some people were at home doing facial masks and creating like, you know, people like, really went in on skin care during the pandemic, child, I totally ignored my skin. I was like, on the computer. How do we pivot? How do we create a class? How do we help? How do we help doulas get virtual be a

Denise Bolds

black, the black birth couch, the black, Yeah, amazing things in the pandemic. We did yeah,

Ravae Sinclair

and the black donor delivery that I had created. We were doing couch conversations every time group the racist Oh, I was doing the anti racism group. And like di I had memberships. Oh, my God, yes, girl, that feels like a lifetime ago, but, but even then, like there was this sense of innovation, meet the need catch people where they are. Yes, it's I still, that's why I say. I still think that that's where we are. I feel like there's an opportunity for innovation and for us to do it. And you know when, when you're creating things, you do need to take take breaks, you need to sit back. So I think we're right where we need to be. I'm really excited. I'm excited for what you have coming forward. Do you have, are you ready to share a little bit of what you have coming forward for the fall? Yeah, for the fall,

Denise Bolds

I have two advanced doula trainings that I created that's coming down the pipe. I have a NICU doula training. And I also have a medical terminology for birth workers, so that birth workers really can begin to understand the language of what's being said when it comes to childbirth. And the NICU doula, well, that speaks for itself. You know, black women have the highest incident of preterm birth, so we need black doulas in these NICUs to really help these families navigate through because in the NICU it is such a psychological takeover, intimidation, alienation, that, you know, we really need doulas to to be able to help these families.

Ravae Sinclair

Absolutely, I love that. I think these are right, like very niche but very specific skills that every doul is going to encounter. You're going to encounter a family at least ones who has a baby that's in NICU, and you may have feel like, oh, the birth is done. I did my part right? Or my or the baby isn't home yet, so my postpartum work hasn't started yet, but this family is having that gap that you are not aware of is traumatic. It can be a real challenge. Can be it Sure, can be a real challenge. And so knowing what they're going through and being able to do emotional support in that space is going to be a game changer for a lot of doulas and a lot of families. So I love that. Let's see. So for me, going into the fall, I'm working to focus more on supporting birth businesses. So even in these three months, I've been consulting with agencies individuals, helping them update their contracts and things like that. So I have some innovation around my contracts that's going to happen. But business tools in general, for birth workers going into the fall is a focus of mine. So packets of forms or startup suggestions, opportunities for like, one on one, support, specific support for your business. And then birth doula training coming out of National Birth and postpartum professionals, because we did the postpartum but we are like, have to get this birth doula training. And combined with the community doula training, off out into the world. It's not like, but

Denise Bolds

doula training is fire. Girl, I

Ravae Sinclair

can't wait for you to get I know. I know. So good. I know, I know. And then some of the things that are really also important to me, it's not doula focus, it's more parent focused. Are my childbirth ed classes, like the self paced modules. I'm just finding that, you know, as doulas, we really need our parents coming to the table with some knowledge. They need language. They need to understand the stages of labor. It's great if they understand ways that they can start to cope and comfort themselves when the different labor sensations happen. We wanted them to know. We want them to come in knowing what to expect on the postpartum side, absolutely so sometimes we don't have a ton of time to prep them, and a lot of doulas are not childbirth educators. No, no, a comprehensive childbirth ed course where parents can walk their way through I did take these three months and learn that families are doing a lot of online classes for their education. And so I'm like, why not let me get in the game? I'm I'm a good one for that. So, so, and that's interesting,

Denise Bolds

because we're not in covid any longer, but these families are still engaging in virtual training. They

Ravae Sinclair

need the education to be convenient, because they're busy. A lot of my clients are busy professionals, so they they want the education, but they need it to be accessible, and so, yeah, so self paced classes are on the way for me. But again, I'm just thinking about the communities that I support, whether it's birth workers or it's parents directly. How can I educate you? How can I help you do the thing that you're trying to do, if that's perfect, or as building your business? So that's really where my focus is for the fall. I'm excited about it. Yeah, yeah, good. Okay, so y'all, we just wanted to come back to you to be like, Hey, we went away to do life and do our businesses, but we're, we're still here.

Oh yeah, yeah, yeah.

Ravae Sinclair

So we're going to come back to, like, sharing tips, ideas, um, giving feedback about different things happened in the birth world. But we just want to say, Hey, y'all, we're back. We're back. I think it's great that we did it on folding chair day. I think it's great.

Denise Bolds

And now that's what I want to see on the Facebook memory next year. I want to see it pop up on,

Ravae Sinclair

yes, yes. I might have to do a post just so I can come back exactly. That's what I want to see. Yes, exactly. Okay, awesome. Okay, everybody. Well, we're back. We hope that this was a fun little like, hey, where y'all been connection time, and we'll get back to our original shenanigans in the weeks to come. So thanks, everybody. We look forward to helping you do that. Yeah, all right. Take care. Everybody. Bye.

Okay, so

Ravae Sinclair

the file will be converted when the meeting ends. Yes,

Denise Bolds

you've got two minutes, two minutes and 30 seconds.

Ravae Sinclair

I don't want to close it because I'm like, did it actually?

Denise Bolds

Yeah, hold on. A second. I got this is Jordan on the phone here. Hey, Jordo, I'm good. How are you? Oh, you're home. Okay, good, good. All right, you had a good time. Okay? I'm on a zoom real quick. Let me call you back as soon as I'm done. Oh, okay, thanks, Yep, yeah, so that was good, that was good. That was good.

That was good. So I will

Ravae Sinclair

take this and update it. I'll actually do it today. I feel like that'll help me to stay on top and get me back into editing. Did you

Denise Bolds

were okay? So if you did your list, is there a topic that you do want us to cover, like for an episode that you put on your list. Or are we good for the day? We're good. I think we're good. I think we're good. Okay, you got, we've got to go back into that list now, because some things are maybe could be, I don't know, could be outdated, or, you know, we got to just say if it's more or more bang for your buck kind of thing,

okay,

Denise Bolds

oh yeah, that's good. That's good, okay, but this was good. I think people are going to really enjoy and, you know, like, Oh, they're back. This is great. That's what they've been doing. Okay, this is great. Just get things started and going, going the way it needs to go here. So this is good.

Okay, I'll

Ravae Sinclair

let you I'll give you some feedback later today about how the editing went. I think I'm going to change our colors. I think I'm going to soften our colors a little bit, um, on the visuals and, um, and, yeah, if you want to do an updated photo, we can do that too. I have to look and see what my photo looks like. I know

Denise Bolds

I don't Jordan for my 60th I need a new photo shoot. Okay, I know. Does it in a new photo shoot? Yeah, I

Ravae Sinclair

actually need to do a photo shoot with new with new hair and colors and, yeah, backgrounds and stuff. So, yeah, yeah. Okay. Well, good. I'm glad we did this today. Shake off the rust, a little bit. We're pretty still in pretty good shape.

But I'll let you know how I'm going to try to do the whole episode, like, get it edited and get it over to you. And

Ravae Sinclair

also try to retrieve this other one. Okay, sounds good.